The RV Fulltimer Blog » rv http://www.fulltimerblog.com The Only Continually Updated RV, Camper, Caravan, and Motorhome Fulltimer Resource Anywhere Fri, 21 Nov 2008 04:51:16 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 en hourly 1 Explanations of Terms used in RV Weight http://www.fulltimerblog.com/guestbloggers/explanations-of-terms-used-in-rv-weight/ http://www.fulltimerblog.com/guestbloggers/explanations-of-terms-used-in-rv-weight/#comments Thu, 20 Nov 2008 02:37:57 +0000 RawWebDesign http://www.fulltimerblog.com/?p=64

I don’t believe there is an RV-related subject that causes more arguments than RV weight, unless maybe it’s the argument over trailer vs. 5th wheel vs. motor coach. Between the cryptic way that RV weights are reported by the manufacturers, the lack of clear standards by the DOT and the often deliberate misinformation spread by RV dealers; RV weights are confusing at best. We recently purchased a new RV – a process that finally prompted me to attempt to fully understand this subject. The following is what I learned, and in my humble opinion, an authoritative explanation of what the truth really is.

Let’s start with the 2 stickers that are required by law on every RV sold in America. The RV manufacturer is required to include a Weight Sticker on the RV that details all the important weight ratings and maximums. This sticker is usually located on the inside of one of the kitchen cabinet doors. The other sticker required by law is a tire capacities sticker. This is usually outside the RV, somewhere near the hitch on towable RV’s. It can be on the inside door frame, near the engine compartment or on the inside of the service door for motor coaches. In addition to these 2 stickers on the RV, you’ll also need the ratings from your tow vehicle if working with a towable.

The Weight Stickers

The RV’s weight sticker displays all of the most important weights as they apply for your RV. The information on this sticker has changes over the years, but it should contain at least some combination of the following:

 

  • GAWR (Gross Axle Weight Rating). The maximum gross weight that the axles will carry. This is independent of the weight rating of the tires.
  • GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating). The maximum weight that the axles and/or the tires will carry. It is the lesser of the axle carrying capacity or the tire carrying capacity
  • UVW (Unloaded Vehicle Weight). The total weight of an RV as it was delivered to the dealer. It does not include any dealer installed accessories.
  • NCC (Net Carrying Capacity). This is the actual amount of cargo allowed. It is in simplest terms, GVWR – UVW = NCC. This is sometimes listed as CCC (Cargo Carrying Capacity).
  • GCWR (Gross Combined Weight Rating). This is the maximum weight of this RV plus any towed vehicle combined. This is listed on the RV for motor coaches, but not towables. For towables you can get this rating from the sticker on your tow vehicle.
  • Hitch Weight. The maximum weight the hitch can support. In the case of a towable this is the maximum weight the RV’s hitch can support and has nothing to do with the hitch rating of the tow vehicle. In the case of a motor coach this is the hitch rating of the hitch used for towing a chase vehicle.
  • GVW (Gross Vehicle Weight). See GVWR
  • CCC (Cargo Carrying Capacity). See NCC
  • Gross Dry Weight. See UVW
  • Dry Axle Weight. The weight of the trailer when the RV is on the hitch. This can be calculated as UVW – Hitch Weight = Dry Axle Weight.

All of these may not be on your sticker since some only apply to certain RV classifications. In addition, there may be other weights listed. In addition to the RV’s sticker, you’ll need to understand the weight rating of your tires. For towables you’ll also need to get the ratings from your tow vehicle. This sticker is usually found on the door frame of the driver door, or can be located in your owner’s manual. It contains many of the same ratings as they apply to the tow vehicle only. 

By this point I was already beginning to feel the effects of information overload. Did I really need to fully understand all of these numbers as well as the mathematics involved? Was it possible to reduce this down to a manageable level and make intelligent, informed decisions? I finally worked it out to a few basic formulas that allowed me to fully comprehend all the important information. With that in hand, we were able to make an informed purchase for our new RV.

Gross Weights

Let’s start with the gross weights since these are ratings that are difficult to modify. It’s easy to adjust the amount of cargo you’re carrying, or reduce the amount of fresh water in the tank. The gross weights are fixed however, and short of making major modifications to the RV, are absolute barriers.

In our case we had already decided on a large travel trailer for our new RV. I don’t intend this article to be a debate in the age-old travel trailer vs. 5th wheel vs. coach argument. Suffice it to say we have very good reasons for choosing a travel trailer over the other classifications. With this is mind, let’s look at the all-important gross weights.

The most important weight to us were the:

 

  • GVWR of the trailer, the
  • GAWR of the trailer, the
  • Hitch Weight of the trailer, the
  • Hitch Rating of the tow vehicle, the
  • Load Ratings of all our tires and the
  • GCWR of the entire rig as noted on our tow vehicle’s sticker.

These are the ratings we couldn’t exceed regardless of how we configured the RV or what we carried as cargo. There are very good engineering and legal reasons for not exceeding these ratings, no matter how you slice them. In my opinion, these are the most important ratings to consider when buying a new RV, regardless of what the RV dealer may try to convince you of. 

The Dealer Dilemma

In our search we ran across both honest dealers and those that were not so honest about RV weight ratings. The majority of the time however, the dealers were neither. They simply didn’t understand these weight ratings and were either misinformed or had no clue how to truly help. Of the dealers that either weren’t properly knowledgeable or those that were downright dishonest, most tried to convince us that the only weight that mattered was the UVW and whether or not that was at or below our tow vehicle’s max towing capacity. In addition, I don’t know how many dealers tried to convince us that these weight ratings have a little “fudge factor” engineered into them.

One of the smartest things we did was speak to our attorney before making a purchase. He informed us that exceeding any of the weight ratings of the RV or the tow vehicle was nothing more than a negligence lawsuit waiting to happen. If it’s proven that you exceeded the manufacturer’s ratings in any way, it can easily be argued that constitutes negligence on your part in the event of an accident. That can lead to problems ranging from very large settlement amounts to even the possibility of your insurance company refusing to pay the claim due to the negligence on your part. Simply put, don’t exceed these weights under any circumstances.

The best way to look at it is to take each and every maximum rating and make sure you are under every one of them. Especially after you are loaded, fueled and ready to get on the road. Often, the only way to do this is to load up your rig and head for the nearest truck stop with a scale. Weighing your rig and understanding the weights you get are key to a safe outcome.

Weighing Your Rig

Weighing your rig is easy and costs very little compared to the alternatives. Load your rig with everything your think is necessary, fill it with fuel and drive to your nearest truck stop with a scale. In order to get enough information to calculate all the primary weights, you’ll need to get to weighings.

First, weigh the entire rig as being towed, or in the case of a coach with chase car attached. Just make sure both your TV (Tow Vehicle) axles and the TT (Travel Trailer/5th Wheel) axle(s) are on 3 separate weighing pads. That will give you weights for your steer axle, your drive axle and your TT or chase car axle(s). Next, take the TT or chase car and “drop” it in the parking area so you can come back and weigh just the TV or coach; again making sure the steer axle and drive axle are on different pads to get 2 separate weights. From these 2 weighings you can calculate all the weights you need.

GCVW (Gross Combined Vehicle Weight) is the total weight of the first weighing. It is important that you do not exceed your TV’s rating or your coach rating on this. If you do, you could be find yourself facing that law suit for negligence I mentioned earlier, not to mention that fact that it’s unsafe. You coach or TV are only engineered to handle that much weight and you could face brake failure, tire failure of other issues if this weight is exceeded.

TV GVW (Tow Vehicle’s Gross Vehicle Weight) is the total of the second weighing. Like the GCVW, it is important to not exceed your TV or coach’s max rating.

Axle weights. Each of your TV’s axles have a max rating, as does your TT. From the individual weights of the axles in both weighings you can tell if you’re exceeding any of the max ratings for your axles. Pay particular attention to your TV’s drive axle from the first weighing. It will be heavier than it is in the second weighing because of the tongue weight of the TT or chase car.

TT GVW (Trailer’s Gross Vehicle Weight). For this one you need to do a bit of math, but it’s not difficult.

TT GVW = GCVW – TV GVW

Both your TT and your hitch have a max rating for this. This weight must not exceed either the GVWR of the TT as found on the sticker, or the Max Towing Capacity of your TV. Hitches also have 2 max ratings, one for the max towing weight (this weight) and one for the weight of the trailer tongue.

Tongue Weight. For this one you need to do a bit of math as well:

Tongue Weight = GCVW – TV GVW – TT Axle Weight

This needs to be within the max tongue weight rating of your particular hitch.

Tires

One last thing … your tires on both your TV and TT. Many people overlook their tire load rating. The load rating is found on the tires sticker and written on the side of your tires and should not be exceeded. Personally, I want plenty of safety margin here. If you run your tires very close to their max load rating it will wear the tires prematurely. More importantly, if you experience a blowout of 1 tire on a tandem axle, the other tires are now carrying considerably more weight than they are rated to carry; especially the ones on the same side as the blow out. It is possible to damage multiple tires in a situation like this before you can even get the rig stopped.

Conclusion

If you pay the most attention to your gross weight ratings, the rest of the capacities seem to take care of themselves. Not that the others aren’t important, it just seemed easier for me to deal with the gross ratings and let the other level out as needed. Since we’re full-timers that travel a lot, I weigh often. It will surprise you how much “cargo” you accumulate as time goes by.

It’s easy to weigh at commercial truck stops and the cost is usually reasonable. Most truck stops will only charge you full price for the first weighing, then a small additional price for the second weighing. The last time I weighed at a CAT scale at a Love’s truck stop, they charges me $7.00 for the initial weighing and only $1.00 for the second one. A small price to pay for peace of mind.

Phil & Karen King are full time RV’ers. They travel 12 months a year and have extensive RV’ing experience. They are the founders of CoolRVToyz, a web site dedicated to bringing the latest, and coolest gadgets to the RV lifestyle, including The Ultimate RV Parks List & Campgrounds Directory, the largest, most accurate and most complete camping Campgrounds Directory available. Best of all, it’s fully downloadable into your favorite GPS or trip planning program.

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We’ve got a guest post today from my Dad, who recently ended a 606-day stint as a Fulltimer with my Mom. I asked him to reflect on his journey, and this is what he wrote back:

“After our full time journey in our RV, it was good when we were finally be able to settle back home in Central Arizona after visiting 26 states over the course of 606 days.

Would we do it all over again? It’s hard to say. We experienced the majesty of driving the coast of Big Sur, and we walked among the mighty redwoods of Northern California. We huddled in our 5th wheel as a Category 2 hurricane passed over our campground on the Outer Banks of North Carolina, and we marveled at the splendor of the mammoth caves in Kentucky. We spent way too many noisy nights at “Camp Wal-Mart”, and way too few glorious nights at 5 Star RV resorts. We dined at 68 different Cracker Barrel restaurants, and used our oven in our RV exactly once. We had no traffic incidents, accidents, dents, flats, or scrapes, but we blew out our black water holding tank in a campground in Jacksonville, Florida because I wasn‘t paying attention to details! Our 2004 Ford 6.0L diesel blew a head gasket just outside of Truth or Consequences, NM and left us stranded there for 6 weeks, But… Truth or Consequences ended up being the best town we visited, with absolutely wonderful people, great BBQ, and delightful hot spring soaks under star studded nighttime skies! Through our journey, there were times we cried tears of laughter, and there were times when we cried tears of despair.

Our GPS was the best investment we ever made, and $4.00/gal diesel fuel was the worst.

We walked the quiet Florida beaches at sunrise, and held hands under the starry skies in Texas. The last night we spent in our 5th wheel was our second best night, and the day we sold our RV was actually sweeter than the day we bought it.

So… would we do it all over again? We’re just too close to look at the whole experience objectively, but IF we did it again, we’d do it a little smarter next time, a little sweeter next time, a little less hurried next time, we’d be more prepared next time, with a much bigger budget, and we‘d do it in a quality Class A RV with a small car in tow.”

A big thanks goes out to my Dad, Nick Spencer, for so graciously contributing his thoughts to FulltimerBlog.  Thanks!

-Brad

]]> http://www.fulltimerblog.com/uncategorized/606-days/feed/ 0 4.5 Secret Reasons to Buy a Fifth Wheel as Your RV http://www.fulltimerblog.com/uncategorized/45-secret-reasons-to-buy-a-fifth-wheel-as-your-rv/ http://www.fulltimerblog.com/uncategorized/45-secret-reasons-to-buy-a-fifth-wheel-as-your-rv/#comments Mon, 04 Jun 2007 18:43:31 +0000 RawWebDesign http://www.fulltimerblog.com/uncategorized/45-secret-reasons-to-buy-a-fifth-wheel-as-your-rv/

All of us have been through this before… you decided to get an RV but are overwhelmed by the sheer number of styles- let alone makes and models. There are too many “ifs, ands & buts” to make a clear decision this early in your learning curve. So, how do you choose the best one?

In my opinion, the 5th Wheel (or Fifth Wheel) offers a lot of advantages that the other styles do not. Actually, I believe there are 4.5 compelling reasons to consider a 5th Wheel over the main competitors; Class A B and C’s, Travel Trailers, Campers, Camper Vans, Slide-Ins, SURV, or Buses.

Without further ado, here are the 4.5 Reasons to Buy a Fifth Wheel as your RV:

1. You don’t have a cabin ruining your space.

You are only using the cabin while you are driving, which is a rare time in most RVers vacation. So, why have your whole RV built around your cabin? Why not make better use of that space and put a couch or desk up there instead? In a 5th-Wheel, you can!

2. More layout options:

Since you don’t have all of the engine, transmissions, and more, you can design your space to work better for you. There are so many ways a fifth-wheel can be set up, you can find a style that suits you better than in a classic RV.

3. No Need to Tow Another Vehicle:

You have a separate vehicle already with you all the time. All you have to do is unhitch your 5th Wheel and you are off the grocery, a restaurant, or a night on the town. Never worry about your tow dolly, a car-in-tow, or pulling a second vehicle like you would have to with an RV.

4. Provides Better Value:

You already have a truck, so why buy a whole new engine, transmission, and all of that? Using your truck to pull means there is one less vehicle to worry about in your life. Less worry means more time to sit back and enjoy your new 5th Wheel.

4.5 Easier to Inspect and Buy:

You don’t need quite as much information when looking to buy one of these used. Actually, as long as you use your noggin and a good Used RV Buying Guide, you should have no trouble getting a good deal on one of these. But, make sure to get a good buying guide or you might get a lemon!

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A few years back I had the bad luck of going to a campsite that made my question my decision to be an RV lover. Despite all the research I had done, when I reached the campground we were headed to after a LONG day on the road, we discovered a campground that didn’t even resemble what we had been told.

The “hotel-like amenities” was more like a wooden shed. The “pool and pond” was more like a dirty lake that even the kids were afraid to enter. The “restaurant” made McDonald’s look like a 5-Star restaurant, and the noise from a near-by freeway was unbearable.

It was anything but relaxing. And- there was a no-refund policy.

My point is, you’ve got to do the right kind of research before you commit to a place to vacation- even if it’s just a weekend. In order to research right, you’ve got to know what to look for. Without further ado, here is my 4.5 Tips to Finding the Best RV Campground for Your Road Travels:

1. Ask Question On The Phone About Price, Discounts on Long Stays, and If They Can Accommodate the Size of your RV:

These are all crucial questions that you can ask. Also, consider asking for a reduction in price if you don’t need cable, internet, or a dump station.

2. Do They Allow Pets?

If you’ve got dogs (or any type of pet) in transit with you, you need a place that will allow pets. A complete write-up on tips and tricks for RVing with pets is something you should really check out if you travel with dogs and other pets a lot. One great place to read up on traveling with pets is here.

3. What Activities Do They Have?

They might have a pool, lake, activities department, arcade, restaurants, or hiking trails. But you’ll never know if you don’t ask. And planned activities can make a rainy weekend still a bunch of fun for the kids.

4. Do They Have Internet?

This might not seem like a big deal- but my business is run from computer, and Internet is crucial for me to receive Email, surf the Web, and get news. If you don’t use the internet in your RV yet, you are missing a whole part of RVing. If you want to learn more about using the Internet in Your RV, check out this guide.

4.5 Do They Accept Mail?

If you are going to be at the campground for a long time- like over a winter- does the campground accept snail-mail? Some do, some don’t. Getting this figured out may save you the need to get a PO Box each time you move locations.

]]> http://www.fulltimerblog.com/ultimate-guide-to/45-tips-for-finding-the-best-rv-campground-for-your-road-travels/feed/ 0 What is a Good RV 5th Wheel Model? http://www.fulltimerblog.com/ebooks/what-is-a-good-rv-5th-wheel-model/ http://www.fulltimerblog.com/ebooks/what-is-a-good-rv-5th-wheel-model/#comments Fri, 01 Jun 2007 20:39:13 +0000 RawWebDesign http://www.fulltimerblog.com/ebooks/what-is-a-good-rv-5th-wheel-model/

A great question I recently heard is:

“What is the best model to buy if I want a 5th Wheel RV?”

My Two Cents:

5th Wheels are something that you have to pick based on some of your priorities. For instance, I found someone that just loves their Montana Fifth Wheel because it has a large desk…

I would suggest going out to the RV Dealer and looking for one yourself. See what fits you right. You are the one that is going to be using it, and each and every person lives in their space differently.

Have you thought about buying used? You can save a lot in depreciation and the first owners have usually corrected the things that inevitably gone wrong in the first few monthes or years of the 5th Wheel’s life.

Whether you decide to buy used for new, it’s always wise to educate yourself on how to buy an RV with wisdom and save a few bucks.

There are two great books on the subject:

The first book is the Used RV Buying Guide. The guy who wrote this has been working on RV’s for years and even has a “Spot the RV Problem” quiz on this site.

The second good buy is Malia’s RV Checklists which cover everything you need to know BEFORE and AFTER the RV purchase. Very good information at this site.

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